Almost Rich: Earning $160,000 – $200,000 a year and barely making it
There was an article shared by Single Mom, Rich Mom in her post Judgey McJudgeypants referencing a Toronto Life article entitled: “Almost Rich: an examination of the true cost of city living and why rich is never rich enough”.
FYI, SMRM makes more as a single income earner than any of these people, and she is even more frugal than I am, which isn’t saying much because I don’t really consider myself super frugal (more of a conscious spender if that exists)… but I thought I ought to point out! 😛
As a short recap, these people earn about $160,000 – $200,000 gross a year and are saying that it still isn’t enough to live the way they want and save. Toronto Life writes:
…the threshold for the top one per cent of income earners is much lower than you’d expect: $196,000, in the latest Statistics Canada numbers.
That’s no small amount of money, but hardly the means for a life of leisure.
In an increasingly pricy city like Toronto, where we pay a premium for everything from milk to car insurance, $196,000 can seem positively middle-class.
I am no good at reading these expenses in a huge paragraph, so I made graphs for two profiles I thought were the most interesting:
At the end of the month, after all the bills are paid, they usually find they have nothing left. “We have a weakness for designer furniture,” says Suzanne. “In 2010, we spent $5,000 on a table and Eames chairs for our dining room.”
THE LEWIS-KOONINGS BUDGET:
I estimated that they earn $125,000 net a year after taxes.
NOTES I’D LIKE TO POINT OUT:
- They’re saving 1.18% of their income for their kids and 0% for themselves
- …but are spending 4.73% of their income on Wine and 3.78% on Eating Out
He tries to stay debt-free, but occasionally he splurges on travel or a big-ticket toy, like the $7,500 Royal Enfield motorcycle he bought last year. “People think I make a lot of money,” he says, “but I lose so much of it in tax.”
THE HAYNES BUDGET:
I estimated that he earns $115,000 net after taxes.
Updated Note: Retirement should be “Need”, not “Want”, although he has a solid saving balance at the end of the year.
NOTES I’D LIKE TO POINT OUT:
- I don’t think his budget is that bad…. because he prioritizes what he wants to do!!!
- He also seems to be saving a total of about $40,000 a year based on his budget ($20K in retirement and $20K in budget leftover).
- I’m sort of curious about his quote about not making a lot of money and losing most of it in tax — he’s a single income household earning about $115k net a year which is a phenomenal amount of money
Read the Toronto Life Article here.
THEY EARN PLENTY TO SAVE, THEY JUST SPEND TOO MUCH
Same old, same old.
I will admit, I was reading the article and I was a bit shocked that they think what they earn, is not enough, but maybe that’s just Toronto Life’s spin on things to garner some shock so that the article goes viral.
I earn $30,000 less than the lowest earner, and I think what I earn is more than enough as a dual income no kids (DINK), although BF and I don’t share our income, we do split the essential bills 50/50 like Rent, Household and Groceries.
For those couples who say that they don’t seem to have money at the end of the day (Lewis-Koonings), they need to re-examine their budget.
The rest, seem to be saving, although not as much as they’d like.
EVERYONE PRIORITIZES WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY
They either want to spend it on Wine and Eating out instead of saving for their kids or their own future (Lewis-Koonings), or they decide that Wine is important, but they still make it a point to sock away the maximum for their retirement (Haynes).
I am not saying that NO ONE should be able to eat out or have a great bottle of wine a week.
I’m saying that if you feel like you don’t save enough, and you’re always living cheque to cheque then you need to re-examine your budget and put your money where your mouth is.
People who claim that they HAVE to eat out because they don’t have time to cook when they get home or are tired, are people who are not organized and conscientious about their money to be prepared for those weekly challenges.
I’m tired too. I get home, it’s late, I’m annoyed, but I cook ahead of time so that I don’t go hungry and start eating condiments and spices.
I AM NO SAINT… BUT I DO SAVE MY MONEY
I am no saint. I definitely spend when I want to spend, and I do what I want with my money, but that’s because I can afford to and I know it.
I save when I can, and when I feel panicky or anxious that I might be turning into a McSpenderson, I cut back and start re-evaluating my goals.
I always review my budget each month that I track with my budgeting tool, I set very lofty goals for my net worth (perhaps too lofty…), and I have significant savings outside of my retirement plans.
I try to be conscientious about my money, but I also want to live my life and be happy, even if it means spending $2.50 on a single macaron! (OK who am I kidding, I eat 4 macarons at a time… so make that $10.)
SO, IS A 6-FIGURE INCOME MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR YOU?
65 Comments
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Simply Content
My wife and I currently make $200,000 annually with guaranteed income increases to $250,000 over the next 4 years. We have 2 kids, one still in college (completed her bachelors and now in medical school), and our son in in the military (but we are also subsidizing his income because he makes very little money). Our mortgage is about $2000/month (largest expense), and we don’t really watch what we spend.
We are not rich, but we live comfortably as we live in the suburbs of Denver, CO and the cost of living is quite tolerable. We don’t have a lot saved for retirement, but we’re still about 22 years away from retirement, plus we have a healthy pension coming in retirement and each have a 401k.
We used to max out our 401k savings for retirement (planning for the future), but now we live for today. we are VERY happy with the choice to put less into retirement and spend more on the daily. And that’s the real secret to happiness… find out what works for you! There is NOT a simple formula for success. Although we don’t consider ourselves wealthy, we think that we are extremely successful!
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Alex Vantaggiato
I have to say, while you do seem like loving parents, the fact that you subside your son’s income because he “Makes very little money” is probably not a good thing to teach him nor prepares him for the future. I say that based on the fact I am in the military (past active, current reserves) and while yes, starting out in the military doesn’t provide a high paycheck, people seem to forget that housing, meals and utilities are provided for free, in addition to the paycheck Soldiers receive, which then becomes 100% expendable income If that’s not what he is telling you, you might want to look into it. Please know, I’m not criticizing you; I’m a parent of 3 boys myself and it is our instinct to want the best for them; but sometime what’s best for them is to have them learn what struggle feels like.
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John
There is no right or wrong to this. Its life experience vs having $$$ in the bank.
I know people who are 60 who have never been out of the country, never spend over $200 on a meal, never been on a boat, they own their hom, have a big nest egg, etc retired at 59 just a simple life.
I know others who are still working at 68 and have travelled the globe, had sports cars, seen alot and have done alot, yet are still working at 68.
I would say somewhere in the middle is best, but even that isnt the right answer, we all will die!! Enjoy your life while you still have it!!
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Miyana
I make a little bit over $400,000 and I live in NYC, but I’ve noticed it is still not enough for me. My mortgage is 10k, I eat out mostly but thank god the bank I work for pays for it during the week, in the weekend I usually spend 1-5k, my car is another 3k, I usually put around 6k in traveling but I never have time to travel, and then I put the rest of my earnings in savings so I end up having almost no money put in savings and 0 in retirement. What can I do that won’t affect my lifestyle directly?
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rich
First of all, learn to cook good and delicious food. Don;t eat out. It is unhealthy and gluttonous. Weekends: walk in the park and see the sights. Stop spending. Duh! Sell your car: use public transport and zipcar, uber, etc. See the city on foot. It is fabulous!!
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matt
U dont need a 10k mortgage, u dont need 3k a mth for a car payment (like u have to drive a 200k vehicle) not like your damn famous.dont need to spend even 1k every weekend. I make 180-220k a year and this year alone i saved 70k. I also drive a 2011 chevy malibu ltz thats worth like 11k only and it gets me around just fine. Im also 35 attractive athletic guy who dont need bad ass car to look cool. I have some fun toys however that i got good deals on used and few bought new. jetskiis,atv,snowmobiles,dirtbike.
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Gina
Wow…may I ask what you do for a living?
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Ann K.
This is just insane. We live in one of the most expensive cities in the US (Seattle) in a close to half-million dollar townhouse we own. We are a one-income family of four, and as of my husband’s most recent raise, we save over 50% of our income. My husband is on track to retire and for our family to be 100% financially independent when he and I are in our early 40s, about 10 years from now. Our grocery budget for 4 people that eat meat every day and many pre-made foods (2 and 4 year old and all) is roughly $500 a month. That includes toiletries and household items. We are extremely fortunate to have what we have, and for my husband’s career to be so financially rewarding.
People who live like these people are making choices. Almost none of that is a ‘need,’ it’s just wants that create more wants on top of wants. You want to live like that? Great! I would like to live like that someday, too. But only when it doesn’t mean selling my husband’s soul to 50+ hour work weeks for the rest of his life. They need to read Mr. Money Mustache and seriously reconsider their life choices if they really believe they’re victims to their circumstances.
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Gina
Your set of circumstances aren’t common; considerate your family and situation extremely fortunate and unique. The key is finding a balance between living the ONE life you get to LIVE v. having money in the bank. That is unique to each person or family. What is more important, making memories and enjoying experiences or $ in the bank?
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Priscilla
I would recommend to reduce the wants. Can you get cheaper or less wine? I don’t mean to offend you or to sound dumb because I don’t drink alcohol so I don’t know how cheap or expensive wine tastes. Get rid of satellite or cable TV and use Netflix or amazonprime. In my house, we weren’t even watching TV and I have amazon it has free local channels and other channels like Disney, History, etc. You just browse and download the apps you want. Plus it has TV shows and movies! So I bought the firestick for $40 and I pay $9 a month for the service. Make a budget on groceries, go to Sams or Costco and buy the food you eat most in bulk. Buy fresh produce at farmers markets. Check ads. I used to spend $200 a week on groceries, now I spend between $50-$100 and that’s it. Take cash with you to the store and leave your cards at home! Stop eating out or cut back to maybe 1 or 2 times a month. Pack your lunch to work (there are thousands of ideas online or youtube for quick, easy, and healthy meal options). Try meal prepping yourself and get rid of the cook. Or instead of her/him coming weekly, have her/him come biweekly. Get an electric pressure cooker (lifesaver, it saves so much time and you basically can throw everything in the pot and walk away). I also went on youtube for recipes and to show me how to use it. Even see if you can get rid of 1 or 2 cell phones. You can use Wifi for calls or use land lines (at work). Go to the YMCA for the sports activities. If your kids are at least ages 6+, I would start giving them chores and putting them on a salary. I pay my daughter $1 a day (she’s 7) for cleaning up her messes, keeping her room clean, doing her homework without me telling her to, etc. Then she buys her own candy or toys when we go shopping. Now she’s not asking for much because she has learned that money is hard to get but so easy to spend. Sit down with your family, go over what you need to live (air, food, water, shelter) then your wants. Start scaling back. Once you break free from all of these extra, useless crap that we don’t need and all you’re doing is making yourself broke and stressed and making someone else richer, you will be so happy. Also, I would call other insurance companies for quotes. My insurance company kept going up on me and finally, I called another company and I pay $40 less (plus I didn’t know I had the best package and I only drive a Honda, I had like $250,000 if I hit someone, come on!). If you have an extra car, get rid of the rental on the car insurance because that will save you money and if anything happens you just drive that extra car. Another thing I would do and you probably might find it hard is to sell that house and get one that costs less. But that’s just me. Shop clearance and out of season. Like now, I found a northface coat for my daughter for $40 that retails for $180. Shop online now for winter coats/boots. Beginning of July for summer clothes. Sell unwanted items on craiglist. Buy at goodwill, garage sales, craiglist, etc. I know it feels good to have “nice” material things and it gives you a false sense of well being, but you will sleep so much better at night when you are not in debt up to your eyeballs. Believe me, I remember feeling like I was drowning and fighting so hard to stay afloat and breathe.
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Patrick
As someone who does all this on a 15k annual pay and looking at people complaining they are barely making it at almost 10x my annual pay like yeah. These things are easy to say.
I use mint mobile my phone costs me $25 a month I pay $300 a year and it’s like unlimited everything. Well ok the nearly $400 plan is unlimited everything and I’m downgrading down to the 15GB to save like $60 a year which is $5 a month. Not much, but I don’t use unlimited. Maybe I’ll keep it around for the odd hurricane emergency but even then it’s overkill.
Living my best life is like 30k a year. If my dad had loaned me $200 for bitcoin when I was making $500 a month, those 40 bitcoin would have been worth millions. There are $10 wines that are better than $30 wines. There are $3 wines that win awards. I can throw a steak onto a skillet with some seasoning and it’ll taste better than a steakhouse at 4x the price. I have had a job demoing steaks and just by watching some youtube videos and using salt and pepper I have people bewildered how I’m able to cook such a tender delicious steak on a stove top.
Like you put on a glove, work out the tough parts, liberally coat it in salt and pepper, high heat, a meat thermometer, and before you know it an $80 steakhouse dinner tastes better at home exactly the way you wanted it for like a whole $18.
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Kim
I hear the pain of this family. We make just over $180,000 per year. Our taxes alone are outrageous normally $40k just in federal. Our problem has been a school loan that always hangs over us and medical bills. My personal medical last year was just over $65k. I am very, very ill. Unfortunately all my money can’t save me, but thank God for an above average income. But we also help support our parents. It is funny how when we made $30k, sells people did not try to spend our money and now they gouge. Not every situation is the same. But please don’t just judge without walking a mile in another’s shoes. Everything is not always as it appears.
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Daisy
My fiance and I make about $300,000 total per year which comes out to about 15k/month after taxes. We are 31 and have no children and no student loans or other debt so that helps. Our expenses are: 2k groceries and dining out, 1k mortgage, .5k household help (cleaning), 1k travel, 1k shopping (mainly business clothes), 1k car + insurance, 3k retirement (we each max out 401k) and 3k investments. We spend a lot on dining out and could save there but feel good because we save and invest ascot 6k/month.
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matt
2k a mth in food is mind blowing, alot of expensive food is overpriced cheap food. A chicken is a chicken right? ok. Or u guys are performing glutny a deadly sin of way overeating.
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Gina
may I ask what you and your fiancé do for a living? That is a significant amount of $ for your age. Congrats! You are fortunate and genuinely in a very unique situation.
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Anon
I make $47k a year and I own my own house. I have a fancy fridge with heaps of food in it. We have all the mod cons. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. I support my partner with her studies. Kind of don’t save a lot yet, but at the moment I’m just thinking of changing jobs. Im not fused about savings. My home will be freehold by the time I’m in my early forties and I’ll rent it out and by some land out in the country and hopefully will have broken away from my dead end customer service job and can work remotely for my self part time and farm part time.
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Kathy
$900 on wine and eating out? Or $900 on wine alone for the single guy. Yikes, don’t complain about not making ends meet if you have the kind of money to spend on that. And too bad about designer furniture. So you live in an expensive city. So do a lot of people who make significantly less than you. Move to the suburbs. I know that everyone is always better at managing someone else’s budget, but for crying out loud, these numbers are just absurd.
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JZ
We earn approx 120,000 a year gross and it is not enough. We cannot afford alot and get in trouble all the time, but then we have 7 children plus pay for child support for one more and I cannot work. We are looking at jobs which earn 150,000 gross and even then we i do the numbers, it helps but its still not enough, we need to earn at least 194,000 to live off and thats not including savings!
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matt
No pass on 7 kids. That is very imature to have 7 kids when u cant obviously take care of all them finacially enough as you would like. No different than broke single chicks having 1 kid these days.
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ahp999
Making 6 figures or more after taxes is a great feeling. When my income level went up, I still stuck to my living style of when I was only making 40k or less. This is great because I have been able to save 70 percent or more of my income. Though I do not spend so much on material things, but certainly that income level has given me more freedom. I have been able to do a lot of traveling to places I have always wanted to go. My priority is just different, I rather take a nice traveling vacation than buy the latest flat screen TV, toys, cars, motorcycles etc.
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Mochi & Macarons
I agree! I ate at Whole Foods every night for about 2 weeks, but by the end, I was so sick of the food, I was dying for a kitchen to cook in.
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LAL
Trust me I’ve sat here and pondered how do most moms I know that work and stay at home drive truly luxury cars? We’re talking Lexus, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes? Cars upwards easily of $40K? How do you afford something like that with daycare or not working on I can’t believe they make 3x what my DH makes. Maybe 2x if they both work, but they aren’t taking home 2x with daycare and taxes probably close to the same.
So how the heck are they and their spouses affording everything? I’ve still never figured it out. How they afford organic everything, luxury cars, eating out, and savings? I have considered if my DH and I didn’t save what we do we’d have an extra $3-4k/month so I guess it’s completely plausible on our income that we could have two luxury cars, stay at home, and eat out or only buy organic without struggling. But then we have to save something still right?-
Mochi & Macarons
Organic food can be easy to find for cheap if you avoid places like Whole Foods…. Although it isn’t easy or AS cheap as normal stuff.
We do a mix of organic and not.
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LAL
Absolutely. My DH and I raise our kids in a city just as expensive as toronto with a six figure income and I cannot complain. I stay at home so what’s there to complain about? I have such privilege. Sure my car is older than everyone I know but heck I don’t see the point in working to buy a new car rather than spending time with my DD.
Now I consider working for mental sanity but definitely not for money. We save something like 35% to boot, live on less than half of what we make and I think we’re living well. I would never say we’re struggling and I would have to say that if worse came to worse I could be working.
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Mochi & Macarons
You have options and no fear about what would happen if things went south, but these people seem to be genuinely scared on what they’re making
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Mochi & Macarons
Exactly!
Spend your money, DO NOT complain if it’s more than enough and you have the luxury of being able to choose to buy organic or expensive cuts of meat for yourself or your family. 🙂
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Mochi & Macarons
I think it’s just unconscious spending, which is very eerily familiar to me. *pats budget*…. now it’s a lot easier to say no.
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Arianaauburn
By having their stories published, these two households are just begging to be robbed. Those desperate with nothing to loose would think neither household would notice anything missing …[sarcasm]. Seriously, the numbers don’t lie.
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Mochi & Macarons
Agreed.
I was quite shocked, myself. It’s no small amount of income, no matter where you live.
There are plenty of people living in big cities like NYC, SF, Toronto, Vancouver, who don’t make that kind of money.
I guess it depends on how you see yourself living your life.
If you’ve ever watched those ‘Princess’ or ‘Til Debt do you Part’ shows on Slice with Gail Vaz-Oxlade, the things people will say, shock me sometimes.
There was a girl on an episode yesterday who had a personal driver because she was sick of driving herself around. That’s the kind of behaviour I expect from someone making millions. -
Mochi & Macarons
Ah I see!
I separate out “Groceries” from toilet paper and so on. 🙂
You make a good point. It’s more that the groceries you buy, have to be tradeoffs. In my cheese example, I wouldn’t spend $30 on cheese everyday. Perhaps once a month, as a treat.
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jdonline
I don’t feel sorry for them even if they live in an expensive city. I think its terrible when privileged people complain about how bad they have it. Especially when they live in the first world and in the richest continent (North America) that the world has ever known in the history of the world.
Our first world problems are rather nice compared to what the rest of the world is facing.
Anyway, there are always ways to cut costs and save no matter where you are. The first family would benefit by cutting out on spending too much wine, eating out, and their other entertainment needs (phone, cable, etc). Maybe stop buying too much designer furniture.
Normally I don’t have a problem with someone spending $5k on furniture, $500 on wine….if they can afford it. But if a person feels that type of spending would squeeze them financially then I can’t feel bad for them. Especially when they make more than the rest of the population ever will.
You know I like watching movies, fine dining, wine, and nice electronic gadgets, I think everyone does but there’s away to have the nice things without spending yourself into debt. Like saving up for every purchase. I know affluent people that have stayed rich because they don’t spend everything they make.
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Mochi & Macarons
The designer furniture told me that they spend impulsively and unconsciously.
They’ve probably never tracked their spending for a whole month or longer, or made a budget in their lives. They seemed to live very in-the-moment.
My parents are a bit like that, and from experience in living as a kid with them and helping them learn how to budget now, it is NOT a sustainable long-term solution.
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Mochi & Macarons
I was trying to think how groceries cost so much, but if you buy organic and fancy cheeses, it really adds up. The other day we bought fancy cheese for $30!!!! For one meal for 2 people that is outrageous, but it was fab cheese….
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Amy
It is enough! My husband and I make less than either of your examples, and we live in an expensive city, too (Washington, D.C. area). We used to make more, until I cut back to half time at work. We decided that quality of life meant more than the money, and, yes, we are frugal. Enough so that we could pay off our first house (we’re renting it out now), and buy a second house in a better school system for our son. I’m actually on the path to starting a second career that is potentially more lucrative (this is what I’m doing with the extra time now), and will hopefully pay back in the future in spades. One of my goals is to own more rental homes (it’s great mostly-passive income!). Saving up for houses is also a great incentive for saving in general, since they’re so expensive. We’re in the process of looking for a 3rd house for rental income. We both also max out our retirement savings and contribute a significant amount to our son’s education fund.
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Mochi & Macarons
You are both on the right track then! Any big city is very expensive and I am in NYC right now, so I KNOW expensive living :/
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Leigh
Uh, yeah, a six-figure income is more than enough. I save at least 50% of my net income and I don’t see why I would spend that much more than that. I don’t spend my bonuses- those go to savings. The only reason I spend so much on clothes though is that I have all this income and got tired of saving it all, so I figured I should wear nicer clothes than t-shirts and jeans.
These people say that living the Toronto life is expensive. Well, yeah, it is. But is that really what they want to be doing?
I’m guessing that the couple didn’t examine their budget at all when they had kids… Daycare at $2,500/month is a huge expense.
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Mochi & Macarons
$2500 sounds reasonable to me for 2 kids. I know from my siblings that it is not easy. It is $600 a week per kid (what they pay) and it depends on their ages too.
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Dazed
Hi,
I live in Toronto uptown with my spouse no kids, and our household income as of 2017 is 225K including bonuses etc. Looking to buy condo that we live in which is ~800K +/- 25K. We live in a very nice and convenient location so don’t want to move. We dont intend to have kids. We are in our early 40s-mid 40s age group.
Currently our rent is $2,850 and our total household monthly expenses are about $5800 including shopping/eating out/discretionary items. Nothing outrageous in our budgets (minimal alcohol ($20/month), grocery $400, eat out $350. We would like to travel over the next years $5-8K annually. Depends on level of income/savings.
We currently save about $4500 per month. We have enough to downpayment of 20% in buying condo but that would leave us with savings of only $150K, in addition a government pension of 80K (only available in retirement) and increase our mortgage plus maintenance fee to about $4200 instead of $2850 rent we are paying. This would also mean our monthly savings would be down to $3500 or less.
We moved to Canada <5 years ago so trying to understand if this level of savings will keep us going in retirement if we buy this condo. We don't expect to increase lifestyle anymore than where we are and we are very disciplined about savings. But not sure if $40K-$50K annually is reasonable or if we need to find a cheaper condo to buy.
Any thoughts?